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Pic Programmer

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Andy100
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Registered: 11-2006

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Posted on Sunday, 19 November, 2006 - 04:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Hi, I want to get back into PIC programming and have dug my old 1998 epemag pic programmer out the loft. All works except for the programmer. It wont send/load the program into the chip. This is presumably due to my new windows-xp not using register H378 on the parallel port. However I've booted using a windows 98 floppy and checked it outputs to register h738 and still no luck. Is it due to my new pc being too fast maybe? Do I need new software to "blow" the program in? There must be some way to resurrect it, or have I blown something on the board? (not many parts to blow)
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Paul_goodson
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Posted on Sunday, 19 November, 2006 - 05:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Hi Andy
Sorry I can’t help much as I still use TK3 with Win 98se

but have you got the latest download
http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk/downloads.html

Paul
The bluntest pencil is better than the sharpest memory!!!!!!!
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Nikgpi
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Posted on Monday, 20 November, 2006 - 03:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Hi All,

I would like to know if TK3 software, or code generated there of, is compatible with any other programmers.?

The PIC interface VB serial interface project that was featured in EPE didn`t have provisions(on the board that is) for 40pin PICs.

I had built one a while ago to suit PICs upto 40pins(does 8,14,18,20,28,40) programming you can see here if image shows:
PICprogrammer1


It has serial(DB9 connector same as the on in EPE article), I noticed that in/on TK3 software, that it utilizes printer port. Would one just put a cable together 25pin to 9pin through cable for this to work as such?

I had to do it once before but instead of using db9 female plug, as I didn`t have one handy, I direct soldered the cable to the programmer board and then to the equivalent pins on the 25pin printer port plug, which worked for the purpose intended.

As John had mentioned in another thread, one may run into problems even between PICs if the code varies.

My question is, if the code is a HEX code and it loads into any given programmer/programming device, should it not just load/program the same as any other programmer (AND Work), given that the pinouts on the PICs are the same for any given matching PIC & code.

Like if one used TK3 and output is HEX and it programs the PIC it was intended for, theoretically, and I will emphasize the theoretically (as thus far I have had no success),
would not the same HEX code be able to be put into any other programmer and work(sort of what I said above). Example:
progSoft1

Any input/feedback on this topic would be appreciated. (Unless or perhaps EPE revisits the serial programmer TK3 project and includes a 40pin ZIF socket and perhaps the square 44pin + smt varieties, although addition of the latter might be a bit on the large side project wise).

Cheers
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Joe
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Post Number: 244
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Posted on Monday, 20 November, 2006 - 04:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Hello Nikgpi,
I think your getting confused about these two projects.

They are not linked together in any way except in that I used TK3 as a development tool to program the PIC's when writing the example test programs for the EPE Serial article.

The EPE Serial Project (software and hardware) were designed to allow "you" the project builder to connect a serial port on a PC to a PIC for whatever purpose you deemed fit. For example, John Becker makes frequent use of the EPE Serial software in his projects that either send data to or from a PC via the serial port. I think the recent giant LED project is one of them.

TK3 uses a parallel port for it's communication to and from the computer, the EPE Serial project, as the name implies, uses a serial port.

YOU CANNOT JUST CONVERT SERIAL TO PARALLEL with a couple of connectors and some wire... if that's what your saying. It would be very very bad for your PC !!!
Also, you MUST NOT use one of those molded plastic connectors that has a 9pin connector on one side, and a 25 pin connector on the other. The parallel port and serial ports are totally different and devices are NOT interchangable.
If you don't have a parallel port on your computer, then TK3 is not the programmer for you.

TK3 does have provision for a 40pin ZIF socket, and I have one on mine tho with in-circuit programming, I hardly ever use it.
Do one thing each day that scares you – work here !
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John_becker
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Posted on Monday, 20 November, 2006 - 04:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Joe, the way in which readers can misinterpret things scares me like hell - never mind about working where you do, on the bottom of your posts!!

ANDY - forget that TK version, go over to TK3 & hardware - details as published and available as back lssue download, software as on Downloads site

J
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Nikgpi
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Post Number: 11
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Posted on Tuesday, 21 November, 2006 - 12:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

John, right on both counts, misinterpret? how about miss the question.

Joe, Yes, I know they are two separate projects, that wasn`t the question, perhaps I should have put a "full stop" instead of a "comma" where I mention "..It has serial..." then "new paragraph" for "...I noticed...." rather trivial.

And... well, Where you mention,

"....YOU CANNOT JUST CONVERT SERIAL TO PARALLEL with a couple of connectors and some wire... if that's what your saying. It would be very very bad for your PC !!!
Also, you MUST NOT use one of those molded plastic connectors that has a 9pin connector on one side, and a 25 pin connector on the other. The parallel port and serial ports are totally different and devices are NOT interchangable.
If you don't have a parallel port on your computer, then TK3 is not the programmer for you...."

Yep, got parallel, 6 or so usb, some ethernet, a few serial and numerous other wingdings,widgets and things hanging off it, which I`ll probably never use.

You may be correct in what you`re stating, however, Joe, tell that to the programmer, must have been a fluke then. And yes it was constructed out of wire resistors in series, lots of hotmelt glue, plastic board from a cottonbud box and some old phone cable, seemed to work for that time that it was needed.

Actually, I`ll try post an image of it here, can`t now, don`t have it here. I`ll go and pick it up, it`s a 6k walk away, take me about 20mins to stroll one way. I`ll throw it at the end of the post when I do, if I can get the edit function to work.

None the less, question remains unanswered.... come on guys.. you`re just trying to side step it aren`t you.... come on now...lets not have the "vested interest" bug creep in here.

If I`ve got to spend more loot on a programmer, then I guess thats what one must do, but, just remember one of the reasons(and I did say one of, the many possible and probable reasons) why most of you play around with these projects,.... to save a dollar,buck,pound, or what have you, whatever currency one might be using in their place of residence, fair enough to say isn`t it.

Thanks again

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Nikgpi
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Post Number: 12
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Posted on Tuesday, 21 November, 2006 - 01:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Here is pics of old bunky, even used 10 resistors in series as was out of that part...its a miracle.
prog1
prog2
prog3

Couldn`t add to previous post as was longer than 30 minutes after posting.

All the best.
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Obiwan
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Posted on Tuesday, 21 November, 2006 - 02:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Hey, as long as it gets the job done eh?

I like to make my projects look nice, expecially if it's something I'm going to use a lot, or somebody else is going to see.

But sometimes, if it's just a one-off, I just want the thing to work. I've got to have a sample of my handi work around here somewhere.
Do Not Hit The Fly That Lands On The Tigers Head.
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Andy100
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Posted on Wednesday, 22 November, 2006 - 08:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

I have finally got it to load! However I had to load the object file into the PIC on my original computer (an old pentium 90) still sitting in the loft. It refuses to load on the new pc even though the parallel port is set to output to register H378.I've even tried booting up using Windows 98 and MSDOS 6! All I can think is its either the speed of the new pc..or something to do with new PCs loading 64 bits at a time or something.

I'll move up to TK3 once I've tinkered with this one a bit.

Thanks,
Andy
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Joe
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Posted on Wednesday, 22 November, 2006 - 08:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Modern PC's allow you to change the operating mode of the parallel port - look in the BIOS - a feature that wasn't available on most older generation PC's.

SPP Mode I think it's called is probably worth a try.
Do one thing each day that scares you – work here !
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John_becker
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Posted on Thursday, 23 November, 2006 - 01:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Andy, now you've made that decision, I'll comment that the TK2 board, which I assume you mean, I continue to use with TK3 software. Both boards have their places (especially for a small board in a suitcase on the way down to Dorset weekly, as used to be the case!) I dont think any mods are needed to TK2 board. TK3 software is far more useful than the orig and works under Windows rather than DOS.

J
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Andy100
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Posted on Friday, 24 November, 2006 - 08:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

John, Thanks I have managed to get the MK2 to run ok on my second Desktop by setting the parallel port Bios to Normal. (under windows 98 bootup). I've had a go at downloading the TK3 software, it says under PCB-check that for a MK2, I need to connect IC5 pin 2, to printer socket 11. This is to enable the parallel port to check that the PCB is connected and powered. However there is no IC5 on the MK2..I'm guessing this must be the 12v to 5 volt converting IC2 pin 2..not the PIC IC1 pin 2. I've tried it as is but no luck. The PCB test seems to work ok Though. Will it load/send without the IC5 to pin 11 connection do you think?
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John_becker
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Posted on Friday, 24 November, 2006 - 11:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Andy, I'll try to look into what I've done for mine. Be patient !

J
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Andy100
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Posted on Saturday, 25 November, 2006 - 08:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Success! I've managed to get the TK3interface to work with the MK2 and it is excellent, its helped pinpoint the problem. The Check-PCB option allows you to check the parallel pin DA0/DA1 output and I've found my laptop only outputs 3.5V (should be 5). Am now only using the desktop and have already done the one xmas lights program. I've now got my eye on the epe download LedFlasher but its a pity it has no documentation on the button presses required. Oh well, its fun debugging it so all is well. The Debug/stepper option is very educational for understanding whats happening.

Thanks for all the suggestions which have greatly helped :-)

(The MK2 works fine unaltered, you simply use the reset button as usual to initialise before send)
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John_becker
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Posted on Sunday, 26 November, 2006 - 01:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Good news then Andy - great. Sorry I didnt find time to look into it myself. But I never use the reset button prior to sending.

J
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Pwillard
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Posted on Thursday, 30 November, 2006 - 04:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

I also use the TK2 Board. There was a recommended mod published at some point and I made that change. (1 resistor I think) I don't do anything special to have it work right with my laptop running windows 98.
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John_becker
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Posted on Thursday, 30 November, 2006 - 08:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

I cant promote the Mk2 board now as it has been dropped from the PCB Service (but I still find it useful - glad you do too :-)

J
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Eagre
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Posted on Sunday, 03 December, 2006 - 02:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

A major problem is that very few PCs, at least in the USA, support serial or parallel output. It is necessary to use USB adapters, and these sometimes present compatability problems. I, too, regret the demise of W98SE and easily accessible serial/parallel port registers, but we must adapt to the present situation. USB PIC programmers, such as the PICkit 2, present an easy PIC programming solution.

Ed Grens
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Grab
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Posted on Monday, 04 December, 2006 - 10:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

I regret the demise of Win98 for losing easily-accessible I/O.

But I don't regret it for a minute for gaining a stable system that doesn't crash three times a day...
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John_becker
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Posted on Monday, 04 December, 2006 - 11:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Agreed Grab, but I take it back much further - the loss of "user ports" with computers such as Commodore, BBC, etc. When those went, that was when the concept of using PCs to control the world was lost at a very basic level.

J
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Terrym
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Posted on Monday, 04 December, 2006 - 11:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

I like to think of it another way. Modern PC's never got to the level of providing a user port.

If you go back and look at those that you mentioned, the first (XT and early AT) PC's didn't offer any where near the graphics, sound and interfacing capabilities of those machines.
TM
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Joe
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Posted on Monday, 04 December, 2006 - 12:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

A lot of those early machines didn't really offer "user" ports as such, and of the pile of early machines I owned, I can only think of one, the BBC Micro that had a truly addressable I/O port.
The rest, TRS80, Dragon, Acorn, Commodore, Sinclare just offered expansion connectors and you still had to do all the address decoding yourself - and needed a detailed knowledge of the internal hardware / memory map to boot.

I grant you, it was much simpler in the good old days to knock up an 8 bit port than it is on a modern PC, but you still can if you want to / know how.

Maplin used to do a 24 bit I/O card that fitted in a standard 8 bit ISA slot on a PC.
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Zeitghost
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Posted on Monday, 04 December, 2006 - 04:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

The remarkably obscure Tatung Einstein had a user port... and a gigantic 50 pin i/o bus connector.

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