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WIB - SD Card Socket

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younngjohnnie
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Posted on Friday, 18 November, 2011 - 05:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Has anyone figured out which SD card socket to use with WIB project in the December Edition.
Jaycor cannot supply the one listed in the article.
Thanks
John
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arw
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Posted on Friday, 18 November, 2011 - 06:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We're looking into this as another reader has had asked the same thing.

Alan W
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arw
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Posted on Tuesday, 22 November, 2011 - 03:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Unfortunately we have been notified of a component supply problem with the specific push-pull type SD card holder used in the design (Dec. 11 EPE)

After going to press we have today learned that Jaycar can no longer obtain that particular SD card socket. The Chinese manufacturer will only supply orders of 10,000+ which is not feasible for the hobbyist market. Jaycar has been unable to source an alternative card with the same pinouts.

With Silicon Chip's help we located what seems to be a replacement (non-UK) but stocks of that are also said to be low. Other types that I've looked at have different pin numbers and all are on lead times of several weeks.

Until PCBs' can be revised, we are trying to design a workaround. This may involve a small board that carries a regular SD card socket, hooked up with jumper wires or other adapter, or some other idea.

Future projects will need a different SD card holder and any legacy EPE/ SC projects will need an adapter interface board if a direct replacement can't be found.

Obviously this isn't the news we wanted to bring our readers. This kind of problem is very rare but parts can go obsolete without warning or remaining stocks can be snapped up by eg a manufacturer for production purposes, making life very difficult for the hobbyist.

The best we can say at this stage is that we are looking at this very closely to see what we can offer and we will be updating readers here or by Email.

Thanks for understanding that this was unforeseable and unavoidable, and we'll do everything we can to provide a workaround as soon as possible.

-- Alan W
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timrwilliams
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Posted on Tuesday, 22 November, 2011 - 06:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From a new poster but an old constructor.

Have you considered Farnell 9186158 SD card connector. I have the board and connector and although not a pin for pin replacement the 7 signal/power pins at the rear seem to align. As the circuit does not use CD/ WP switches I think this might work electrically. 2 plastic lugs need trimming and an insulation layer might be sensible, plus some physical fixation to the board edge. The holder will extend beyond board edge but no more than the SD card in the original design. I have not wired the board yet but plan to try this,

Any thoughts anyone?

Tim
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arw
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Posted on Tuesday, 22 November, 2011 - 08:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We would be extremely interested in any developments that you can share with us. With Ian Bell's help we have located a Farnell part number and are looking at the implications of a daughterboard adapter. Various people are on the case!
Alan Winstanley -- EPE Magazine Online Editor
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www.EPEmag.net - hobby electronics and more
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dave_squibb
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Posted on Wednesday, 23 November, 2011 - 08:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've ordered the Kit from Jaycar so will be interested to see what is in that!
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arw
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Posted on Wednesday, 23 November, 2011 - 10:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm advised that there is an alternative part available (the Australian distributor says they will have ample stocks) which I'll try to get checked out for compatibility. However lead times and distance make this a bit difficult.

In the meantime we're aiming to publish a workaround within the next week or so. We'll keep readers posted!

-- Alan W
Alan Winstanley -- EPE Magazine Online Editor
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timrwilliams
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Posted on Wednesday, 23 November, 2011 - 06:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The SD card connector mod I suggested in a previous post seems to work and I have completed the board.
I do not have the info (or knowledge) to test the board further but the firmware does write a log file to a blank SD card with the MAC address
so it looks as if SD card communication is working with this card connector.
Looking forward to Feb EPE

Tim
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arw
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Posted on Wednesday, 23 November, 2011 - 07:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's great Tim -- we're compiling the information needed for a revision so your feedback is very useful to us, thank you.

We agree that not all pins are used or are necessary. A simple modification is already been worked on and we should know the status by early next week. I also have feelers out in Australia but the logistics make it difficult. Overall though I'm confident we'll soon have the problem nailed.

Despite the scope for key parts going obsolete, thankfully this remains a very rare problem.

-- Alan W
Alan Winstanley -- EPE Magazine Online Editor
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mikehibbett
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Posted on Friday, 25 November, 2011 - 10:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

FYI, the published alternative will use a Multicomp connector, part number MC34459. It's available from Farnell as part number 9186158 at a price of £1.09 plus VAT.

In practice any SD Media socket that has connectors at the end will work; you will just have to glue the connector to the PCB ( with a suitable insulator layer such as a thin sheet of plastic ) and then solder 7 short wires between the socket and the board.

I'll give a demonstration of this with photographs once the part has arrived.

Regards,

Mike
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grahamrounce
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Posted on Wednesday, 30 November, 2011 - 06:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wouldn't mind trying the Farnell one for another project (Pic'n'Mix in the same issue), but Farnell have a minimum of £20 (not inc vat!) for card orders. Short of sending them a postal order, what's the way round it?? (Or anyone in Central/East London ordering anything from them soon that I can add to?)
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vlf
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Posted on Wednesday, 30 November, 2011 - 08:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi, not sure if this will help, but RS has a standard SD Card & MMC at £3.88 each... the dimensions are almost the same as the Multicomp.

URL: http://export.rsdelivers.com/product/yamaichi/fps009-3202-bl/yamaichi-manual-sd-card-mmc-connector/0237697.aspx

Regards, Brian L.
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mikehibbett
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Posted on Wednesday, 30 November, 2011 - 08:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, the £20 minimum order is a pain. Why not make a call for enough people to gang up together to make a shared farnell order?

Or order parts now for your next project, like I did :o)
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grahamrounce
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Posted on Wednesday, 30 November, 2011 - 09:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

vlf - That looks good. Should it be ok?? It's hard to tell if it's pcb mounting from the picture. I stupidly already got one of their "509-9257", which personally I'd need a degree in magic to be able to use.

Or, I'm very happy to gang up for the Farnell one, assuming that too is solderable. It's only a quid. I could have 5, I suppose...
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mikehibbett
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Posted on Wednesday, 30 November, 2011 - 09:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

>assuming that too is solderable

It's very easy to solder - I just did it this morning, for the magazine. Even after two coffees :o)
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grahamrounce
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Posted on Thursday, 01 December, 2011 - 10:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, good! Roll up roll up! 15 more must go!!
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mikehibbett
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Posted on Thursday, 01 December, 2011 - 07:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You might want to start a new thread at the top level, called something like "Club together to buy parts for WIB from Farnell"

You might get more people looking. Also, perhaps a few other parts will get ordered, and you'll reach your total quicker.

For those who are desperate, I've found them on ebay too. Search for MC34459. They guy is charging £3.50 for them though. And no, it's not me!

Mike
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mikeb
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Posted on Thursday, 01 December, 2011 - 07:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can always get a prewired SD Card (mini or micro) breakout pcb and wire it to the pcb. I use Sparkfun (USA).

rgds
mb
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younngjohnnie
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Posted on Thursday, 01 December, 2011 - 08:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lots of prewired ones on Ebay as well
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mikeb
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Posted on Thursday, 01 December, 2011 - 08:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ARW - Is there any chance you could chat up the editor of EPE to help us with this Farnell min. order problem? I have asked several times and been refused.

It would help so much, and make good business sense to Farnell in these hard times. RS now only sell items in quantities to make a min purchase of £5 per item.

If this keeps up, we wont have a construction hobby and that means we wont have an EPE.

Any bright ideas - anyone ?

rgds

mb
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mikehibbett
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Posted on Thursday, 01 December, 2011 - 08:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

>Any bright ideas - anyone ?


How about setting up a website to do group purchase up to £20. Then post using surface mail.

A bit tricky, because someone is going to have their parcel lost in the post, or damaged goods, etc etc. Payment could be done by paypal.

Hum, might setting up something myself. I've seen it done for bigger orders. It's a pity to have to setup a whole service to bypass Farnels braindead system. They could at least have a sliding scale ( I can't see them posting £1's worth of kit for free, but if I really wanted to, I'd be happy to pay £3 on those rare times I really cannot wait. )

Mike.
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grahamrounce
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Posted on Thursday, 01 December, 2011 - 09:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I'd be happy to pay £3"

Whoa! Let's start negotiations at... say £1.50!
I mentioned it on the phone to Farnell, but the girl on the other end just parroted the rule.
They don't seem to realise what goodwill they are losing.
I see Mouser is expanding....
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mikeb
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Posted on Thursday, 01 December, 2011 - 09:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Mike - that sounds like a solution for Farnell that could be automated and still allow them to have their order threshold.

They take 'bidding' orders via paypal. If the Farnell order threshold is not met, then all of the potential buyers can be offered the best price for that number of bidders plus postsage and packing - a bit like Bid TV shopping channel (if you are sad enough to watch it).

I have just looked at RS and yep - you can only buy 10 of the MAC address eproms.

Also - it would be very nice if you could perhaps have a look at the code and give us a few tips on what code areas do and how to change the important bits like configuration.

Thanks as always

rgds

mb
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phonoplug
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Posted on Thursday, 01 December, 2011 - 10:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi All. I'm a bit late in on this conversation and I have to admit I haven't read it all, but if there is an issue with minimum order quantities or values perhaps I can help. I regularly order from Farnell, Rapid, Mouser and Digikey and don't pay any delivery costs. I'm willing to help. Send me a PM.
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mikehibbett
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Posted on Thursday, 01 December, 2011 - 10:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

>it would be very nice if you could perhaps have a look at the code and give us a few tips

I will be doing just that, because I fancy tinkering with it myself.

My kids have been nagging me for ages to get them a personal website on the Internet, and being a tight old git, I didn't want to pay for another domain hosting ( or let them near myspace! )

So our own webserver will be ideal, and I'll have a bit of fun tinkering with it. Some of you may remember I covered this kind of subject in PicNMix a few years back, but I never built the hardware into a decent box until WIB came along. Now I'm hooked!

I've a couple of articles to finish for the magazine, then I'll start looking into the code.

Mike.

p.s phonoplug - that's a great offer, thanks. I'm ok, but hopefully others will avail of the offer.
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younngjohnnie
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Posted on Friday, 02 December, 2011 - 10:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

which one is the correct one for the MAC chip
25AA02E48T-I/OT or 25AA02E48-I/SN
or is there any difference
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arw
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Posted on Friday, 02 December, 2011 - 11:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

(Please can we keep this particular thread on-topic, dedicated to the WIB SD socket update.)

-- Alan
Alan Winstanley -- EPE Magazine Online Editor
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mikehibbett
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Posted on Friday, 02 December, 2011 - 04:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you wish to respond to this post could you start a new thread "Part number for WIB eeprom"

>25AA02E48T-I/OT or 25AA02E48-I/SN
>or is there any difference

There is a big difference!

If you download the datasheet for the chip from the Microchip website (http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/22123A.pdf) you will find on page 17 an explanation of the part codes.

I/OT is the 6 pin SOT package; I/SN is the 8 pin package.

The WIB project requires the I/SN 8 pin part.

Regards,

Mike.
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motchjv
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Posted on Tuesday, 06 December, 2011 - 09:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Alan W, hi, I just ordered most of the components for the Wib from Farnell tonight. I aso ordered the pcb from yourselves the other day. When ordering te components I coundnt source the SD card socket so I left it out the order. However, I have just taken a first look at this forum and I see I was not the only one with problems tracing a SD socket. I see there is a Farnell fix (9186158). I'm going to ring them first thing and get this so key added to my order. Is this the fix you are proposing to publish. Aso will the PCB be modified for a new SD socket?

Cheers, John.

(Message edited by admin on 07 December, 2011)
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motchjv
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Posted on Wednesday, 07 December, 2011 - 11:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just got Farnell 14875882 added to my order, do we know how to fix to the existing board?

Cheers
John
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arw
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Posted on Wednesday, 07 December, 2011 - 11:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm awaiting the final details regarding the update, which are being typeset -- it would be difficult to pre-announce anything as I'd only be second-guessing what's about to be published (any time soon). Best I can say, sorry!

(I deleted your email address, unwise in a forum.)

-- Alan W
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mikehibbett
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Posted on Wednesday, 07 December, 2011 - 07:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

>I just got Farnell 14875882 added to my order, do we know how to fix to the existing board?

I think you typed that in wrong. It's not coming up as a farnell part code. Did you mean 9186158? That is the correct part to go with the 'fix'.

Regards,

Mike
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motchjv
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Posted on Wednesday, 07 December, 2011 - 07:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, typo, i ordered 9186158. Cheers, John.
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grahamrounce
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Posted on Saturday, 24 December, 2011 - 09:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

mikehibbett - SD Card socket for the Wav Player - I'm getting there gradually. Would you please not mind confirming that the pin numbers for the Farnell 9186158 match those in the article schematic?
The data sheet shows:
WP, CD, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, g (or possibly 9)
Whereas the schematic gives:
9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, SW1, SW2, SW3

(Pics enc for your convenience!)

I'd just like to be sure before I etch off all that copper!

Thanks,
Graham

9186158 pinoutsWav Player schematic
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grahamrounce
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Posted on Saturday, 24 December, 2011 - 11:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just a mo! 'old yer'orses!
I'm having another think on this, this time starting more sensibly with what's common, ie the card...
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grahamrounce
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Posted on Saturday, 24 December, 2011 - 12:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is great! Now I'm even more confused.
Got the pinouts (I hope) from here: www.comtel.cz/files/download.php?id=1469
which look like the yet-another-enclosed pic.

The pins numbered 3, 4, and 6 on the schematic are easily matched with the Gnd, Vdd, Gnd on the datasheet. Unfortunately, the others (deduced in red on the pic) don't then make sense. There's only room for pins up to 8 (going rightwards on the pic) and there's an extra one after '1' going leftwards, whereas on the schematic there's pins 1 to 9.

Help, pls?



(Message edited by GrahamRounce on 24 December, 2011)
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timrwilliams
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Posted on Saturday, 24 December, 2011 - 01:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Graham - I think there are various data transfer modes from SD cards and MikeH has used SPI mode.
The only pins you need to connect are 1-7 as on your diagrams. Your labeling in last post is for SD mode. The connections on Mikes circuit do work (I have stripboarded a version) and I just ignored 8/9/cd/wp.

Hope this helps


Tim
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grahamrounce
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Posted on Saturday, 24 December, 2011 - 03:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi, and thanks. But I'm afraid I'm still not totally unconfused....
Ignoring, then, the SD card datasheet in my post of 12:49, do you mean that the pin *numbers* in the Farnell sheet match up with the ones in the EPE schematic (posted at 9:50)? But there's no pin 9 in the Farnell sheet! Just ignore that, and use the matching pins 1-7?

Thanks again!


(Message edited by GrahamRounce on 24 December, 2011)
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timrwilliams
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Posted on Saturday, 24 December, 2011 - 03:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Graham -

Yes, thats right. The Farnell 9 as you say looks like a g. But Farnell 1-7 correspond to Mikes. Ignore the physical layout on the EPE schematic SD connector and just go by the pin numbers 1-7 connections to the dsPIC33.
(I have just checked my board)

Regards Tim
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grahamrounce
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Posted on Saturday, 24 December, 2011 - 03:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, I think I've gottit at last. '1' on the schematic corresponds to '1' on the Farnell sheet, '2' to '2', etc, up to 7.

Thanks again,
Merry and musical Christmas!
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mikehibbett
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Posted on Wednesday, 28 December, 2011 - 09:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tim, thanks for pointing that out. I've been busy helping the Christmas Elves, and couldn't get back sooner.

These connectors are quite tricky to work out - my first etched and solder board blew up an SD card :o)

Hopefully you are all sorted now Graham?
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grahamrounce
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Posted on Thursday, 29 December, 2011 - 10:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

God, I hope so! As long as it goes 1-to-1, 2-to-2 as above, I'm hoping not to get the roof blown off!
Merry all that...
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rich13
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Posted on Friday, 06 January, 2012 - 01:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi all

I know its a bit long in the tooth rearding the sd card adaptor, as Feb issue is nearly upon us, but ive just ordered from RS an adaptor thats pin compatible, pin 9, 1-7, pin 8,
may help some one.


The order ref ect is

685-0779: Std size,std mount SD Memory Card
Cost is £2.07 each

One small problem is that it sits across the solder tracks, so ive put some tape underneath to not short out.,to add support the tags can be soldered to the solder track, very firm fit. Ive soldered tonite, but didnt get time to test.

Link >> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/685-0779/


Rich
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younngjohnnie
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Posted on Monday, 09 January, 2012 - 05:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rich
Have you tested this yet. Seems an easier solution than the just published daughter board
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rich13
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Posted on Tuesday, 10 January, 2012 - 12:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

@Youngjohnie

Ive been a tad busy , so bit behind with playing with me WiB, ill have more time tomorrow evening, soon as ive tested ill post back

I havent seen the daughter board you mentioned.
Rich
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rich13
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Posted on Tuesday, 10 January, 2012 - 11:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Me again..

I soldered the adaptor, but as soon as power applied no leds ,seems it was shorted out somewhere, after putting tape, then resoldering tags, it didnt seem right, in the end, when i thought it was all good,it still shorted out.The adaptor lies across the solder tracks, so somethings amiss.(pity the adaptor doesnt have a plastic caseing)
As its in a box, ive used without fail an adaptor from a card reader, its a multi type (compact,sd ect), and works flawless,

To be honest now its working, i dont want to play around desoldering as the tracks are getting a bit worse for where.

Thanks

Rich
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younngjohnnie
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Posted on Wednesday, 11 January, 2012 - 08:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thats a shame it didnt work. I bought one anyway so may give it a go once I get some time.
It difficult to see why it wouldnt work if can get over it shorting out.
John
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rich13
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Posted on Wednesday, 11 January, 2012 - 10:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was pondering all day about out this, ive ordered another adaptor, it would be neater and nearer to the actual project layout to fit the mentioned part,im not letting this beat me.

Let us know how you get on when youve fitted yours youngjohnie.

Rich
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motchjv
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Posted on Sunday, 15 January, 2012 - 09:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm very confused by the farnell 9186158 SD memory card fix for the WIB. can someone give me the pinouts on the 9186158 and how they relate to the SD card pinouts on the WIB PCB. Cheers, john
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mikehibbett
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Posted on Sunday, 15 January, 2012 - 10:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi John,

in what way are you confused?

Cheers,

Mike
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motchjv
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Posted on Monday, 16 January, 2012 - 12:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi mike

I need the pin to pin configuration for.a daughter board. I thought the mag was going to publish a fix as the originally specified SD card socket was no longer available and the replacement was a Farnell SD card socket, which I have. The number of pins on this socket is different to the PCB. So I need the pin to pin details.

Cheers
John
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motchjv
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Posted on Monday, 16 January, 2012 - 12:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So where's the work around?

Until PCBs' can be revised, we are trying to design a workaround. This may involve a small board that carries a regular SD card socket, hooked up with jumper wires or other adapter, or some other idea.

Future projects will need a different SD card holder and any legacy EPE/ SC projects will need an adapter interface board if a direct replacement can't be found.

Obviously this isn't the news we wanted to bring our readers. This kind of problem is very rare but parts can go obsolete without warning or remaining stocks can be snapped up by eg a manufacturer for production purposes, making life very difficult for the hobbyist.

The best we can say at this stage is that we are looking at this very closely to see what we can offer and we will be updating readers here or by Email.

Thanks for understanding that this was unforeseable and unavoidable, and we'll do everything we can to provide a workaround as soon as possible.
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motchjv
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Posted on Monday, 16 January, 2012 - 01:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok is it just pin 1-7 on the Farnell card socket to pin 1-7 on the WIB PCB?

John
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arw
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Posted on Monday, 16 January, 2012 - 01:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The SD card holder update was published on Page 35 Feb 2012 issue.
Alan Winstanley -- EPE Magazine Online Editor
Subscribe now at www.epemag.com!

www.EPEmag.net - hobby electronics and more
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motchjv
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Posted on Monday, 16 January, 2012 - 02:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just bought feb issue, all in there, thanks. Problem solved.

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