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Sound Spectrum?

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cherrytree
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Post Number: 298
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Posted on Tuesday, 05 June, 2007 - 06:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

}
Hi all,
hope you all are OK?

Just a quick little post here:-)
I know this depends on age, & the condition of ones Ears..
what I would like to ask...
can someone with rather good hearing, hear a
25HZ frequency ie per second?
cheers all
cherrytree
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terry
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Posted on Tuesday, 05 June, 2007 - 08:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do you mean 25khz ?

Terry
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terry
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Post Number: 357
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Posted on Tuesday, 05 June, 2007 - 08:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

human 64-23,000
dog 67-45,000
cat 45-64,000
cow 23-35,000
horse 55-33,500
sheep 100-30,000
rabbit 360-42,000
rat 200-76,000
mouse 1,000-91,000
gerbil 100-60,000
guinea pig 54-50,000
hedgehog 250-45,000
raccoon 100-40,000
ferret 16-44,000
opossum 500-64,000
chinchilla 90-22,800
bat 2,000-110,000
beluga whale 1,000-123,000
elephant 16-12,000
porpoise 75-150,000
goldfish 20-3,000
catfish 50-4,000
tuna 50-1,100
bullfrog 100-3,000
tree frog 50-4,000
canary 250-8,000
parakeet 200-8,500
cockatiel 250-8,000
owl 200-12,000
chicken 125-2,000

Terry
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john_becker
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Posted on Tuesday, 05 June, 2007 - 11:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Terry, I was going to say that the chart is interesting, but then I looked at the figures for humans - I can hear below the 64Hz mentioned, I hear 50Hz quite readily, as I think most people probably can. I used to be able to hear 25Hz, but not sure if I could any longer.

It is, though, the upper freqs one mainly loses with age, and with how much wax may have built up in the passages (which syringing can remove - I've had it done many times for various reasons - not unpleasant!)

I did once design a hearing tester that tested one's hearing freq range and minimum amplitude needed, maybe 10 years or more ago, but I forget if I quoted any figures for normal range. I wonder if your chart is correct. What's its origin?

You make me think I might do a simple equivalent for the Teach In 2008 I'm writing, as one of its very simple monthly projects. (That series starts with Nov issue I think.)

J
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grab
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Posted on Tuesday, 05 June, 2007 - 11:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

25Hz is getting towards the kind of frequencies that you *feel* rather than hear.
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terry
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Posted on Tuesday, 05 June, 2007 - 01:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought the same thing when I posted it John. I think it is interesting as a ball park figure though. On another web site they say 16hz is the minimum humans can hear.

Terry
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epithumia
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Posted on Tuesday, 05 June, 2007 - 01:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We need to know if the frequencies quoted are limits, or, say, 3dB points.
If you need me, Neil and me will be hanging out with the Dream King. - Tori Amos
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zeitghost
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Posted on Tuesday, 05 June, 2007 - 02:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Have a look at

http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/dBNoFlash.html

There's a nomogram of loudness curves under

"Loudness, phons and sones".
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steerpike
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Posted on Tuesday, 05 June, 2007 - 04:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can sense - rather than 'hear' down to 25Hz - but there are very few loudspeakers outside of studios that can reproduce that sort of low frequency.
Recently when aligning a tape deck I discoverd I cannnot hear anymore the 13kHz bias test tones I used to be able to hear. Actually when I was about 10 years old, I could hear the 15.626kHz whistle from the TV set - that 'loss' is a blessing.
Generally, high frequencies are lost through age, low frequency hearing loss is more likely due to injury or infection (or certain antibiotic drugs.)
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gajjer
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Posted on Tuesday, 05 June, 2007 - 05:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi all
doesn't all this depend on the power level?
The Fletcher-Munson curves show that the band width of the human ear is dependent on sound level.
At 0 phons 1kHz is about 65dB louder than 25Hz.
At 120 phons its only 8dB.
I haven't the faintest idea what a phon is but that is what the curves show.

Hope that helps the debait.

cheers
gaj
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john_becker
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Posted on Tuesday, 05 June, 2007 - 06:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gaj, I wish I could say it did, but I have no idea what a phon is. I am aware though that amplitude is important in determining freq abililities, hence the need for a good hearing aid for many people.

J
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g6osv
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Posted on Tuesday, 05 June, 2007 - 08:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi,
Steerpike you must be younger than me I still remember the racket that our 405 line set made at 10.125khz,
ian
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tim_1
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Posted on Tuesday, 05 June, 2007 - 08:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Phon
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Phon is also the name of a town in Thailand.

Fig. 1: The Fletcher-Munson equal loudness level contours for pure tones.The phon is a unit of perceived loudness level LN for pure tones[1]. The purpose of the phon scale is to compensate for the effect of frequency on the perceived loudness of tones[2]. By definition, 1 phon is equal to 1 dBSPL at a frequency of 1 kHz[3]. The Fletcher-Munson curves are a way of mapping the dBSPL of a pure tone to the perceived loudness level in phons.

The phon model can be extended with a time-varying transient model which accounts for "turn-on" (initial transient) and long-term, listener fatigue effects. This time-varying behavior is the result of psychological and physiological audio processing.

I hope this helps, there's also a graph but it didn't copy.
Tim
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cherrytree
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Posted on Tuesday, 05 June, 2007 - 10:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

}
Hi all,

thanks very much to all of you who answered my post.. great feedback..and to Terry.. very impressed by that Freq(Chart)... Yes I've read about the Phons and the other bits, but it is complex.. but interesting too.

And Terry "Yes" I did mean 25HZ but you answered all the question in one go!! (Good)
And to Mr John Becker..Yes John I remember an article in EPE about a Hearing Tester but I flipping did not get around to doing it.. shame that..
Terry quoted, for a Cat 45-64,000
thats very high..
I myself can I suppose hear as John said a 60hz buzz.. which one can make up in a circuit in a short time..
and yet when I went through a lot of Test Frequencies I could detect about 30hz.. like grab said more of a feeling as opposed to a noise or what ever..
Ok
thanks again
CT.
:-)
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john_becker
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Posted on Wednesday, 06 June, 2007 - 01:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cherrytree, I think I've still got the drawings for circuit etc if that's any use to you. Let me know and I'll put my contact email here

J
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boris
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Posted on Wednesday, 06 June, 2007 - 07:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have an 80W RMS per channel hi-fi amp connected to my PC for music/games and such. Excellent 100W speakers with good low frequency response. I can make my stomach crawl at 30Hz. (brings to life those FSX engine sounds). Prolly bothers the neighbours though.

Try downloading a free sound generator, there’s plenty around, such as the one found on this page: http://shmelyoff.nm.ru/

The lower and upper response is not just due to your hearing. It’s the speakers and the amp etc. also.
"What's red and invisible?"
"No tomatoes"
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obiwan
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Posted on Wednesday, 06 June, 2007 - 04:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's a good point. When you reach the end of just about any spectrum, either natural or not, you need to start taking into account the limitations of the equipment you're using to test them. More often than not, they're going to be too expensive for the average person to have just laying about.

As you mentioned boris, down at the lower frequencies, you're using higher quality speakers and sound system. So it hardly does any good to test your hearing using an "average" system. You can't hear it, because it's not producing it!
Do Not Hit The Fly That Lands On The Tigers Head.
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cherrytree
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Posted on Saturday, 09 June, 2007 - 11:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

}
Hi all,
Thanks to all of the Epeusers on here.. Great feedback..

PS:Cheers J.Becker.. that would be great to do somthing different for me to build.
OK?
cheers all
CT.
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john_becker
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Posted on Sunday, 10 June, 2007 - 01:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

CT - my details

106 136 [dot] 625 [at] compu serve [dot) com

No spaces, usual substitutes

J
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atferrari
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Posted on Sunday, 10 June, 2007 - 03:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Until the age of 25 I was able to hear the 15.6 KHz from the TV. It was highly noticeable when visiting my aunts. Their (very old) tubes/valves TV was excellent in whistling.

It was quite a shock the day I realized that the TV was on and I heard nothing!

I tend to agree, with no scientific support that low frequencies, below 30-40 (?) Hz, you "feel" them more than "hear" them. Even in a room where you are not in contact with anything affected by the sound waves. (Oh yes, there is the ground...)

To acertain point, in my car, with the bass control well advance, I would say there is a similar situation but, there, I am in close contact with the car itself.

(Message edited by atferrari on 10 June, 2007)
Agustín Tomás - Buenos Aires - Argentina

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