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Electrotherapy.

:: EPE Chat Zone ­:: ­Radio Bygones Message Board :: » EPE Forum Archives 2007-2009 » Archive through 13 July, 2007 » Electrotherapy. « Previous Next »

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thomas
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Post Number: 185
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Posted on Sunday, 24 June, 2007 - 07:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Chat Zoners,

Since my teens, I have suffered attacks of rheumatic fever, several of them vicious. One had me in hospital. I hadn’t had one now for nearly ten years -- then I had a vicious attack at the beginning of June. I thought I’d have to cancel my plans for a long and productive life! The symptoms were swelling and pain in the joints, distressing discomfort in the chest (no sleep), and mild rash. I was exhausted walking three blocks (some might say I shouldn’t have been walking at all). Not once in thirty years have I recovered from an attack without medical intervention. Usually that intervention involves a battery of tests and treatments over weeks or months. This time, I couldn’t stand the thought -- so I resorted to electrotherapy. I selected a Rife frequency for streptococcus, 8 450 Hz, and pulsed about 100 ìA d.c. through the body, 3 x 10 minutes a day for about a week. I immediately felt relief from the pain, and the discomfort in the chest began to lift from the start. By the end of the week, I was experiencing small improvements each day, and I left the treatment. I sensed that things had turned. Now, about two weeks after treatment, I can walk a mile, with no pain on condition that I go at a leisurely pace -- not quite up to speed. The swelling, as far as I can tell, is gone. The discomfort in the chest has completely left me. This is surely one of those “don’t try this at home” advices, but I thought I’d share it for interest. Was it the electrotherapy? The wife, for one, says she is amazed that I recovered as I did.

With kind regards,
Thomas.
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mikehibbett
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Posted on Sunday, 24 June, 2007 - 07:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What ever it was, I'm glad for you that it's gone!

Mike
-----
www.drivesentinel.co.uk - Home build GPS Speed Camera Detectors
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steerpike
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Posted on Sunday, 24 June, 2007 - 07:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Thomas
Good to know that your ailmets are abating!
What kind of equipment did you use to apply these currents, and where on your body was it applied?
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atferrari
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Posted on Sunday, 24 June, 2007 - 08:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You did by yourself, Thomas? Or you went to doctor?
Agustín Tomás - Buenos Aires - Argentina
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magnum4
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Posted on Sunday, 24 June, 2007 - 08:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All the best for a good recovery Thomas.
Regards,
Jim
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obiwan
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Posted on Monday, 25 June, 2007 - 12:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm also glad you're recovering, I know what a debilitating condition can be like. I often have to take pills to "make me go away" so I don't have to deal with it, just go to sleep for a couple of days and it's over (hopefully).

The "electrothrepy" could be several things.

One is like the TENS unit, meant to scramble te brains electrical signals. Not only for pain but also to the general organs as well.

As I'm sure you know, most of the body's signals are either electical or chemical (hormones), which basically all come down to being chemical.

Scramble some of the electrical signals, and you're going to interfere with the chemical signals as well.

But there's also another aspect to this. And that's the "psychosomatic" aspect.

You wanted it to work, you believed it would work, and so it did.

That happens quite often. Many people are given nothing more than placebo's in durg testing and they experience complete relief, just as they had taken the regular medication.

The brain is far more powerful than people give it credit for. And it's the one responsible for sending, acting on and receiving those chemical signals. So, convince it that the scrambling will work, and by golly it will work.

Nothing wrong with that at all. Part of my motto is, "what ever works....". I keep telling the doctor I'd eat ground up worms if I thought it would help me. What ever works...

I would be interesting, and I know you would not be looking forward to doing more, but if you could perform more testing. Different frequencies etc....

Could be, you just happen to get better on your own. Could be, the planets were aligned right, could be a lot of things.
Do Not Hit The Fly That Lands On The Tigers Head.
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john_becker
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Posted on Monday, 25 June, 2007 - 01:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thomas, I for one would be interested to know how you fare after Rife - there have been so many derogitory reports about the treatment, including in EPE.

As Obiwan knows, and I've told you too, I've got a current pain problem in one foot, which is under medical observation but surgery is not recommended they feel. Meantime I'm quite good friends with paracetmol. But that doesnt totally solve the problem of painful walking on a seemingly bruised foot.

J
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thomas
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Posted on Monday, 25 June, 2007 - 09:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you, folks, for your comments and your personal interest. It seems like a gallery of old friends above. Here are some answers:

Steerpike. The equipment was a square wave generator, with d.c. voltage sufficient to achieve about 100 uA through the body (24V battery supply). I applied it through metal plates to the palms of my hands and the soles of my feet.

Agustin. My best hope was to flee the doctors (I succeeded!), because I knew what a regime I was in for if they suspected rheumatic fever. The diagnosis was my own. I knew from past experience that this looked like classic rheumatic fever, although I’m not qualified to diagnose. By the way, we have a calendar on the wall that I bought the time I saw you in B.A.

Obiwan. I’d be open to the possibility that you’re correct. I put this on the Chat Zone since it seemed so markedly unusual. This much I can say: I have never before had a rapid recovery from rheumatic fever (two weeks, in this case, was rapid, and hopefully it will hold). Also, the “turn” coincided with electrotherapy. So my hunch is that it’s the electrotherapy. Rheumatic fever is caused by the body getting its response to microbes muddled, so perhaps an electrical “scrambling”, as you suggest, could have changed the dynamics. My assumption was that the offending microbes might resonate, and their functions be disrupted. With regard to your “broad” thinking, it’s interesting that in Africa there’s a holistic conception of health, while Westerners tend to treat symptomatically in a narrow sense.

John B. Sorry you’ve been struggling. My late father had severe pain in his feet in old age, due to poor circulation. He found that this was completely relieved with a TENS unit. He would apply it and turn it on all night! Re Rife, while I used a Rife frequency, Rife would probably not have applied a current directly as I did. I’ve wondered about attitudes to electrotherapy. In some areas it would seem well established (e.g. treating infection in post-operative wounds), in others it would seem to be regarded as quackery. Perhaps there have been some good results, but too inconsistent. Or perhaps too many quacks!

With kind regards,
Thomas.
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obiwan
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Posted on Monday, 25 June, 2007 - 08:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

John, have you tried a TENS unit on your foot? Or around it?

Thomas, they tend to think that way in China also. China has been doing quite well for thousands of years. Too bad we haven't taken a lesson from them many, many moons ago and adopt some of their thinking.

Like I said, I'm all for what ever works. I've tried acupuncture (no luck) and everything else the doctor could throw at me. The acupuncture was the "modern" kind, I've also sought out some real old Asian medicine also, but it's a bit limited here.

But again, the only way to verify anything is with more testing, and I'm sure you're not looking forward to that. Ditto me. For me to go any further (another operation), I have to have some more testing done. Last time I did that test, it was just a nightmare. Really, it's like something out of a freaking horror movie. And I just can't bring myself to go through that stuff again, no matter how doped up I am (nope, they can't put me to sleep to do it either, have to be awake).
Do Not Hit The Fly That Lands On The Tigers Head.
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john_becker
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Posted on Tuesday, 26 June, 2007 - 01:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Obiwan, no I havent, I'll speak to my specialist next time I see him. And ask his opinion of Rife - though I think I know the answer :-)

J
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wizard
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Posted on Monday, 02 July, 2007 - 02:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From my own personal experience...

A couple of years ago I damaged my shoulder and was in pain.

At my charity, where I work a day a week, was a lady who practised Acupressure - this is like Acupuncture but without the needles.

I had never tried alternative therapies before but I decided to try this and went to her with a completely open mind.

After three sessions of applying light pressure at various points of my body including my back and my feet, the pain was completely gone and I had no trouble with my shoulder.

The interesting thing is that when she touched my feet for example I could feel sensations in my side. She can't explain exactly what happens but she says she can feel the condition of various parts of the body and affect them. I can understand this since, as the whole body is connected via the spine, there seems no reason why touching one part of the body can not produce an effect in another part.

It worked for me - it's whatever works for you and I would never discount alternative medicine.

Unfortunately she has now retired - but fortunately I haven't had any problems since.
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obiwan
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Posted on Monday, 02 July, 2007 - 05:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds like "trigger points". The nerves for some things (your feet) are close to the nerves that connect other things (your side).

I have one on my back, up near my shoulders, it make my brain think it's connected to the spot where I have pinched nerves.

So if you just barely touch it, I jump like you had pressed that very tender area, but you're really several inches away.

The doctor that found it kept poking at it saying "see? that there's a trigger point!", "look how he jumps" and stuff like that. I finally told him "Yeah! It's a trigger point! Stop already!!"

Some doctors are a pain in the... trigger point.
Do Not Hit The Fly That Lands On The Tigers Head.
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chippie
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Posted on Monday, 02 July, 2007 - 09:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

With reference to the TENS unit, I suffer from Rheumatoid Arthritis and have done so for the last 18 years...It affects my left knee, right hip,hands and fingers and over the latter few years my upper and lower sections of my spine...

I take medication on a weekly basis and sometimes pain killers, but by far the most effective treatment I've had for relief from my lower back pain is the use of a TENS machine...It works by stimulation of nerve endings I'm told which result in the production of chemicals that aid pain relief...

Just thought I'd share...

Sounds like a meeting of AA...
eccentric millionaire financed by 'er indoors
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obiwan
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Posted on Monday, 02 July, 2007 - 11:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does sound like it doesn't it?

I've tried a TENS unit and had no joy. I bought one from a grarage sale for $5. Never used. All sorts of fancy settings, but still just doesn't do it for me. Nothing else works either, so I'm not surprised.

I used it on a car trip to see my folks, a long drive and normally really rags my back out. So I was really hoping it would do something for me. But I couldn't tell any difference.
Do Not Hit The Fly That Lands On The Tigers Head.
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grab
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Posted on Tuesday, 03 July, 2007 - 02:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

China has been doing quite well for thousands of years.

China actually doesn't have too good a record on medicine. Some things work, yes. But much of it doesn't - tiger's penises, rhino horn and other similar stuff which is a quintessential part of Chinese herbal medicine. Or it works because there's an active ingredient which might fix that problem but causes a whole stack more - many "herbal" medicines have been found to contain dangerous levels of steroids, for example.

The Chinese system is interesting because it shows how you can get effective results for the wrong reasons. That might give you a therapy that works, but attempts to derive further therapies based on that reasoning gets you nowhere. In this particular case, Chinese law stopped doctors dissecting newly-dead people to find how they went together. Chinese doctors were limited to investigating battlefield corpses, which had often been around a bit.

Now all the nerves go up the middle of the joints. Trouble is that nerves are one of the first things to disintegrate in a dead body, and this left hollow tubes in the bones. The doctors, being competent, found those tubes, but they thought this was some kind of fluid transmission system. When people talk about "flow of chi", the doctors back then really thought it was a substance that would flow, like water.

This naturally led to the Chinese figuring out better than anyone else where the nerves went, resulting in better systems for tweaking them than the West got. But their proposed system (a chi "liquid" in those tubes) just wasn't the case.

Graham.
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thomas
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Posted on Tuesday, 03 July, 2007 - 07:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Since I was a lad, if I touched the end of my right index finger, I heard a low frequency sound in my left ear. This was annoying if I had to draw with a pencil. How does this relate to electronics? Goodness, are we off-topic? Perhaps ARW will pounce. Like a leopard. Thomas.
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obiwan
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Posted on Tuesday, 03 July, 2007 - 07:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, I was automatically discounting the bogus stuff such as rino horns and such.

But they have been using herbal medicine for thousands of years, and have quite the jump on the rest of the world.

They were using effective herbal remidies while others were doing such non-sense as blood letting, animal warts buried at midnight, locks of hair burned and dropped into the "patients" food and so on. (another popular remedy was an elixir made from burned mummies from Egypt)

If you take a good look, you'll see much of the rest of the world didn't really start doing much until the last hundred years or so.

Back when our country was founded, they practically murdered George Washington. He had been out when he shouldn't have and caught pneumonia.

They bleed that poor man until he was at deaths door. And some of the other stuff, I'm convinced sped him on his way to meet his maker. Horrible little things. Cupping and mustard plasters and blistered feet I think, nasty things today we would consider torture.

And that really wasn't that long ago when you put the time line in perspective.

But I agree that they have a LOT of bogus junk out there too. And they're still practicing it, contributing greatly to the demise of several species of animals. Bears, tigers, rino's, turtles and on and on and on.....

Even the American Indians had greater knowledge of herbal remedies than the "settlers" here. But it was us that wrote them off as being "spooks" and dim-wits.

I mean think about it, bathing, a very, very basic tenet of good health, wasn't practiced until fairly recently! Even today, many cultures still don't bath regularly. While the "orientals" enjoyed long hot baths regularly, it was a family affair.

I think it was Henry the Eighth, not sure but if I can find the article, I will know for sure, but he had two baths during his entire life. The day he was born, and the day he died.

Then there was the practice of wiping ones bottom with ones own and not washing. And that's all I'm saying about that.

Even as recently as the late 1800's and early 1900's, the documentation on bathing was silly. "Pregnant women shouldn't attempt it" (as if water is harmful in itself), "when you have your first bath shower you should feel faint, you should stop immediately and not attempt it again as you simply are not suited to water baths". (as opposed to "air baths", as if those did any good, but Ben franklin was a fan of them. But I think he just liked to hang around naked)

I was just trying to point out that compared to much of the rest of the world, the Chinese had a great jump on us, and we could have learned much from them had we not been so stupid ourselves.

(Message edited by obiwan on 03 July, 2007)
Do Not Hit The Fly That Lands On The Tigers Head.
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obiwan
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Posted on Tuesday, 03 July, 2007 - 07:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm pretty sure he'll pounce after mine, getting way off topic. But good trivia eh!
Do Not Hit The Fly That Lands On The Tigers Head.

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