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Reverb circuit?

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dave80c51
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Posted on Thursday, 03 January, 2008 - 04:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi,

Can anyone suggest a circuit to create a reverb audio effect. I have a Yamaha guitar amplifier and want to incorporate this effect into it.

Has such a circuitt already been made as an epe magazine project and If so in which issue?

Does anyone know of an ic designed for this purpose?

Thanks,
Dave.
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chippie
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Posted on Thursday, 03 January, 2008 - 05:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dave can you contact me off list? You do not accept private messages....

I may be able to help...
eccentric millionaire financed by 'er indoors
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grab
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Posted on Friday, 04 January, 2008 - 10:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

IIRC, the PIC Polywhatsit had a reverb on it. Pretty low resolution, but might work for you.

As a guitarist myself, my recommendation would be a foot-pedal. You can probably pick up a second-hand one fairly cheap, or new Behringer ones are fairly cheap too.

For a little more money though, you can get a basic Zoom. They're a bit plasticky construction-wise, but they sound OK. Or for £110-120 you can get the one I've got, which is the Korg AK1500G - sounds good, tons of different sounds, and built like a tank (mine's endured weekly practises and a number of gigs for 5 years).

Of course, if you've got more money then you can go for what one of the other guys in the band has, which is a Pod XT Live. Wonderful bit of kit and sounds great, but it's huge and costs about £250-300. I think my Korg is a decent compromise.

Graham.
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dave80c51
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Posted on Friday, 04 January, 2008 - 12:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Graham, thanks for your reply.

I took a look at the Behringer foot pedals on their website. Can you tell me what's the difference between a reverb effect and a delay effect? Is a delay effect like a reverb but much longer more like an echo?

Thanks,
Dave.
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grab
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Posted on Friday, 04 January, 2008 - 06:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Delay" is what it says. It simply mixes one or more delayed versions of the sound with the current sound. Usually there's also a "feedback" option where the delayed sound goes back into the input to create a chain of delays tailing off.

"Reverb" tries more to create the same impression that we get from rooms and halls. This isn't a single echo; instead the sound is echoing off all the walls (and floor and ceiling) to reach the listener in different ways and with different times.

So the difference is in how the delayed versions of the sound are used. Where a "delay" effect will usually be specifically playing back samples X milliseconds behind, a "reverb" effect will hold off for X milliseconds, then play the "early reflections" (the weak reflections of sound off close sources) at a lower level, then play more of the delayed sound as most of the reverb (off walls) hits, and then tail off as the sound bounces round the room and dies away. This makes them very different beasts sound-wise, and which one you want will depend on the sound you want it to make.

Personally, I like a combination when I'm doing PA work. Reverb is essential for filling out your sound and stopping it sounding "clinical", particularly on vocals, but put too much on there and you lose the sound under the reverb. Using a short single delay as well will fatten the sound up without the reverb "tail", and you can then get away with less reverb. On most good reverbs you can tweak this yourself (by changing the "early reflections" parameters), but I like the flexibility of being able to mess with this more directly.

Graham.
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graham
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Posted on Sunday, 06 January, 2008 - 09:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

dave simple reverb unit OCT '88 , TDA 1097 bucket brigade [criclewood £15 + 1x} TLO 84 :29 x R's : 17xC's
delay line oct '88 [part# 5 of audio mini bricks also TDA1097 or TDA1022 £13
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graham
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Posted on Sunday, 06 January, 2008 - 09:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

dave simple reverb unit OCT '88 , TDA 1097 bucket brigade cricklewood £15 1x TLO 84 :29 x R's : 17xC's
delay line oct '88 [part#5 of audio mini bricks also has TDA1097 or TDA1022 £13 this circuit may need other modules in series to work
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mikehibbett
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Posted on Sunday, 06 January, 2008 - 09:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A friend of a friend makes tape based echo units, here in the uk:

http://www.echomatic.co.uk/

They have a link on their page to a company called Binson, who publish the schematics for their echo units:

http://www.binson.com/

It's lovely technology - a tape loop and values, hand made in the UK.

Mike
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obiwan
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Posted on Monday, 07 January, 2008 - 01:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another place you may want to check out is that musicfromouterspace.com site, they should have something.
Do Not Hit The Fly That Lands On The Tigers Head.
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grab
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Posted on Monday, 07 January, 2008 - 07:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I suspect £899+VAT for their cheapest one might be somewhat overkill here, Mike... :-)

Bucket brigade delay (BBD) chips used to be the easiest way of doing a delay. They're a chip with several thousand onboard capacitors. The idea is that you clock the chip at some rate, and the voltage gets passed along the chain of capacitors until it comes out the other end - it's a kind of combination analogue/digital idea. Usually you have a fixed number of steps, so you vary the delay time by varying the clock frequency.

First off though, this is a delay, not a reverb.

Secondly, the sound quality isn't anything like as good as a digital delay. The TDA1097 has 1536 stages, so for a delay of 100ms (which is fairly short) you'd be sampling at 15.36kHz. This limits your frequency response to a maximum of 7.68kHz, so you'll lose some of the top-end, and you really can't go any further without majorly losing the signal. And passing charge along a chain of capacitors inevitably gave some signal degradation. The very cheapest digital delays now use 16-bit ADCs and DACs, and almost all half-decent stomp boxes use 24-bit, all sampled at 44kHz.

More of a problem though is that BBD chips are virtually impossible to find these days. Digital delays and reverbs are more flexible, give longer times, sound better and are much cheaper to make. So BBD chips simply stopped being made.

Graham.
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graham
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Posted on Saturday, 19 January, 2008 - 07:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

would like to print all of the song titles shown listed on screen in the downloaded music folder which are acessed through the "my computer" icon at computer start up [does that make sense ? ]
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mikehibbett
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Posted on Saturday, 19 January, 2008 - 07:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You should really start a new topic for that question, but I'll answer it anyway.

I believe, although could be wrong, that there isn't. You would have to do it the hard way:

1) Get the list of files onto your screen.
2) press the button on your keyboard that is called "Print Screen" or "PrtSc".
3) Run the Paint application, found under accessories in the All PRograms section of your start menu.
4) In Paint, select the option "Edit" then "Paste"
5) Now, you can use the paint program to re-size your listing to fit it onto a page, and print it out.

This is an ugly way to do it, but works well for other problems - like printing route directions from google maps, or circuit diagrams from web pages.

Cheers,

Mike
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quornhog
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Posted on Saturday, 09 February, 2008 - 07:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There was a circuit for reverb unit published in the February 1985 issue of "Everyday Electronics", and I can provide a copy of the article if you require it. This circuit is based around the MN3011 BBD IC. This is a 3328 stage device which has 6 taps which are not harmonically related, so by combining the output you get a more realistic effect than with more conventional chips.

You can download a datasheet for the MN3011 from www.datasheetarchive.com.

The chip itself is now out of production, but is currently listed by http://www.mark5.co.uk, http://www.skyelectronics.co.uk and http://www.dialelec.com. Additionally, there a couple of dealers advertising the chip on eBay. Please note that I have not had dealings within any of these suppliers.

Hope some of this is of use.
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john_becker
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Posted on Sunday, 10 February, 2008 - 12:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quornhog, welcome to you too :-)

But I must repeat what I've just said elsewhere - copyright does not permit us to allow the exchange of copies in this way via this zone.

J
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bob9999
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Posted on Tuesday, 19 February, 2008 - 10:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I seem to remember, from days of yon, of a reverb unit, made-up from a long spring and a couple of pickups. It seemed a bit Heath Robinson at the time but was muted to work well with the Guitar!
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zeitghost
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Posted on Tuesday, 19 February, 2008 - 12:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remember that... was it a PE project?

Two crystal pickups & a springy thing...
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chippie
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Posted on Tuesday, 19 February, 2008 - 12:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It was designed by a guy named Hal Moorshead, used 2 crystal pickups and a spring. Think it was Practical Wireless that published the article..

Fred Judd went on to do another version in 1972, definitely in Practical Wireless that I do remember...Used AC127/128 to drive the reverb unit which had two springs attached to what look like transistor amp driver transformers...

(Message edited by chippie on 19 February, 2008)
eccentric millionaire financed by 'er indoors
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grab
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Posted on Wednesday, 20 February, 2008 - 09:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Spring reverbs are an old, traditional way of doing the job. Even older are plate reverbs. They date back to the 1950s, and they do work OK and have a distinctive sound - listen to any surf guitar for an example. However they have one major downside for live playing, which is that knocking your amp causes a noise like B-52 dropping an entire bomb-load of china plates on the floor...

Graham.
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quornhog
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Posted on Wednesday, 20 February, 2008 - 06:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There were a few DIY spring reverbs about at one time. EE published designs in the January and December 1980 issues; PW published a "Reverberation Amplifier" in the June 1977 ish; "Electronics and Music Maker" published their "Multireverb" unit in their April 1982 ish; and ETI published a design which was reprinted in their "Top Projects No. 2" publication.

All of which is probably academic as the springlines themselves are difficult to find these days (although I expect they turn up on eBay occassionally.)

Oh, and E&MM's spin-off publication, "Home and Studio Recording", published a design for a "Plate Reverberator" in May 1984.

We didn't need digits in those days!
"There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes!"
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ago
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Posted on Friday, 29 February, 2008 - 12:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not sure if anyone is still monitoring this thread, just came across it this morning..

Spin Semiconductor manufacture an IC (the FV-1) that contains eight built-in effects, including reverb, as well as the ability to program up to eight of your own effects, if you understand DSP programming. The IC is self-contained, with built-in stereo 24-bit ADC and DAC and a sampling rate of 48kHz. See http://www.spinsemi.com/products.html for further details. Profusion http://www.profusion.co.uk/ distribute these in the UK (not sure where you're based, dave80c51), as well as a few other pretty useful devices. You can also get an evaluation board, although these devices are supposed to be easy to use - bear in mind 3.3v supply and SOIC package.

(Message edited by ago on 29 February, 2008)

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